After a decade of working worldwide with large product groups in their adoption of LeSS (Large-Scale Scrum), organizations are starting to realize that the main goal of LeSS is not to enable traditional big groups to "meet their commitment" more efficiently. Then what is it? It is to see the ineffectiveness of traditional large-scale organizational design and to change it, by descaling with LeSS towards a simple model for multiple teams that optimizes for agility (flexibility), learning, and flow of value. But any structural change per definition challenges the status quo of middle-management and single-specialist positions, leading to the dynamics of Larman's Laws of Organizational Behavior. In this talk I'll share stories of descaling with LeSS, and making structural change happen.